Patt Morrison for June 18, 2012 | 89.3 KPCC http://bit.ly/Kkx8rK
LISTEN TO THE PROGRAM
James F Clay/Flickr An empty classroom.
June 18, 2012 :: United Teachers Los Angeles (UTLA) voted Friday in favor of a tentative one-year agreement with LAUSD that reverses 4,700 layoff notices and keeps some programs LAUSD planned to cut, including Adult Education, Early Childhood Education, and SRLDP (School Readiness Language Development Program).
Class sizes will also remain at current levels for the 2012-13 school year, instead of being increased by 25 percent, but all of that is in exchange for furlough days that could potentially lead to 5 fewer school days in the LAUSD academic year. If these new cuts are approved, the number of days cut from the academic year over the last four years could wind up being18 days. The move may save some teacher’s jobs, as well as art classes, but would put extra pressure on parents to juggle childcare and supervision for the days their kids aren’t in school.
WEIGH IN:
And how would academic achievement suffer as a result of a shorter school year? Can teachers condense all the necessary lessons into a shorter year? Where can the district turn for cuts in the already-austere budget?
Guests:
Brandon Martinez, assistant professor, clinical education with USC Rossier School of Education
Scott Folsom, former president, Los Angeles 10th District Parent Teacher Student Association (PTSA)
Valerie Davidson, secondary arts teacher, LAUSD’s Peary Middle School, Gardena; she’s taught in LAUSD since 2001 and was pink slipped in March; her positions was not included in UTLA’s agreement Friday
Gillian Russom, history teacher, Roosevelt High School in Boyle Heights
smf: On the show Dr. Martinez was right in questioning just how important the length of the school year and the number of instructional days are in overall educational outcomes. But that said, by reducing the number of instructional days and the number of days teachers are employed through furloughs LAUSD and public education in California does not begin to address some of his suggestions for reform.
And Finland – which has fewer-but-richer instructional days, better teacher collaboration and preparation, and ranks highest in student outcomes and citizen literacy – has NO high-stakes standardized testing. And few Finnish Language learners and minimal poverty.
comments on KPCC website:
Todd
On the on hand, "investing" in education sounds great. On the other hand, continuing to "invest" in failing school districts, failing unions, etc. seems futile.
We need more LOCAL education, more privately run schools that are responsive to parents in the same way businesses COMPETE for customers. Some schools need to die, some need to be born, but the conversation needs to be about how we award more money for success and not failure.
Veritas
IT IS CRIMINAL! ... even if the kids were just coming to school to be shown some videos how to become self-sufficient and self-confident ! ( perhaps these could be shown WHILE the Union-Fat-Cats Teachers , are not there! - )
Since the teachers certainly do not want their students to be self-confident, self-sufficient - then the fat-cats teachers WOULD ACTUALLY BE EXPECTED to PERFORM and TEACH THE KIDS to LEARN, TO PERFORM, TO ACHIEVE!
christy
You should home school.
Leonard Isenberg
The proverbial 850 lbs. gorilla in the room that goes unmentioned is social promotion, where students arrive at school already far behind because of poverty and de facto segregation issues. They are then pushed through grade after grade without learning the prerequisite grade-level standards that would allow them to be successful. It is not a function of how many days students go to school, rather the quality of the education they receive. My wife wen to German school in Rome, Italy where the students went for 4 1/2 hours a day. The difference was that they worked the whole time and never were allowed to fall behind. LAUSD at 180 days or 155 days has degenerated into a daycare system that neither Larry Mantle nor Patt Morrison rely understand, because they naturally project their own experience in public education without realizing just how far it has degenerated. At www.perdaily.com I have post 413 blogs about what is really going on at LAUSD and big inner city predominantly minority filled school districts throughout this country. We are now 58 years since the landmark decision in Brown vs. Board of Education and even though we are significantly more segregated than in 1954, nobody in the media seems willing to connect the dots and hold LAUSD administration responsible for what, since Miramonte, they have been trying to lay off on teachers who have absolute no say on how this long failed system is run.
I too went to LAUSD and have 3 university degrees, speak 3 foreign languages, and am also an excellent mechanic, builder, electrician, and metalworker from skills I learned from an LAUSD of a different era. So why can't LAUSD do it again? Because the media has given them a free pass by not asking the hard questions. If you come to the realization that our very democracy is threatened by turning this number of students loss in society without even minimal education, please get in touch:
Lenny.perdaily.com 323.938.1258
Ann
Regarding students watching movies at the end of the school year, this stems from the fact that the curriculum is based on teaching to the test. Therefore , once testing is over in May , there really isn't anything else to do for teachers requiring them to teach otherwise. Teachers no longer are required to collaborate and new teachers are given scripts on how to teach to the test. So between May and the end of the school year, it's just dead time as opposed to ongoing effective teaching which includes creative and innovative methods.
Billythegrip
Your guest pointed out that the majority of the money spent in California on education goes to teacher,s salaries and benefits, but I have heard many times that the school districts in the state are, frequently top-heavy with administrative personnel. What percentage of the above costs go to these, non-teaching positions?
Tombrom
Coming from Australia and now a parent, I can't believe how short the school year is here. You can't tell me 150 days is as good as 200 in Australia. It's a huge strain on parents to find camps/childcare etc during that period. My wife gets 3 weeks annual leave...that leaves 7 uncovered.
Webcrawler
For the parent that called in about their child watching movies in class, don't solely rely on the student for an accurate account of what a day in school is like. Get the teachers view as well.
Sometimes the answers a child gives to a parent regarding school, is designed to placate...
Norma in Lakewood
My son watched five movies last week. I learned of it first when he was comparing movies with the boy we carpool with. Only one class did actual work. I think partly it was for the reason one of Patt's guest's said: the books had been turned in, desks cleaned out, etc.
i remember in high school we watched a movie in english class the last week of school. that was it. we had easy/fun work in the last week. but we did some work.
Sharen
LAUSD needs to be transparent with their budget!
Cutting categorical funds - increasing calss size at our school sites is playing right into the hands of the corporate reform of public school movement. This movement is putting pressure on school site so that they will have no choice but to become charter schools.
This is the way to the privatization Of our public schools...people need to wake up and relaize that this will eventually impact our democracy and Deasy and his cronies are behind this!
Veritas
Good Luck getting the TRANSPARENT Budgets from LAUSD - while the TEACHERS UNIONS have the grip on the L.A. Schools, you will never see any Budgets ... only the whining, "we need MORE money" ! Perhaps the "privatizing" via Charter Schools won't be that bad ... if it will teach the kids the REAL education!
Norma in Lakewood
i'm with mary (talking about watching movies at school). last week, the last week of school, all my middle schooler did was watch movies!!!! i was wondering why they even *had* a last week of "school."
Admin in OC
The teachers that usually do this...are the veteran teachers. Yet, these are the same teachers that the unions protect.
Veritas
right on ! .... but DO NOT tell anyone on these pages that these old (useless union fat-cats) teachers should be FIRED!
Essin
Isn't it about time to increase the class size. This is essential in the long run anyway because the number of children that will be in school in the future will be smaller than it is now, It is essential to avoid overloading the retirement system, to begin a gradual reduction in the size of the teaching force by increasing class size.
CDCH
Small class size equals teacher job security. My class size was 29-31 when I went to school.
Teachers want smaller classes which equals more high paid teachers needed.
Norma in Lakewood
not everywhere yet, but yes, school by school, classes are increasing in size. they did at my son's elementary.
Admin in OC
Another segment with guests that are disgusted with what is happening in education, but yet nothing gets done. Everyone states "we have to do this...we have to do that...but nothing gets done. No one wants to make a decision that truly benefits students...politics wins every time. We wonder why our students cannot compete with the rest of the world. Frustrating.
Norma in Lakewood
so frustrating. i feel like the public at large (people without kids currently in school) really have no idea.
Joao
Does LAUSD use volunteers to help teach or coach some of the basics? Lots of retired professionals might be willing. Hospitals rely on volunteers. Universities use them. Why not LAUSD? would the union balk?
Beth in West Hills
Volunteers are wonderful, but they can't replace trained professionals. My children are already missing out on PE (exercise classes are currently provided by the YMCA, but my children are not learning the basic skills of many activities) and a functioning school library (volunteers do not have the background or training to develop collections or maintain circulation in a way so that collections stay current and books are actually returned). Relying on volunteers diminishes the professionalism of teaching.
Norma in Lakewood
it varies school to school as to how welcome volunteers are, but i don't know of any school where volunteers are rejected. most schools would gladly accept them. at my son's school (not in lausd), retired teachers often come back to help.
as an LAUSD parent, I am upset my child will lose more education time, but I would rather that then over crowed classes, less out of class (but in school ) staff, no adult education, no pre school. It is the best of all the bad options.
Chris
Are teachers jealous of retired teachers.
Retired teachers are at the front of the line and get paid FIRST before active teachers and schools.
NO body is talking about this!
Francis in Pico Rivera
California's future is dim. College tuition going up, furlough days increasing at all levels, economy is crap, huge deficit. How could you cut education? Short term solution, long term disaster.
I think if they are going to reduce number of days, they need to increase the length of the school day.
My long term goal is to move outside of California in the next few years. It sounds like we are going to be a state full of the uneducated.
Veritas
Hello Francisco! just keep voting the Democrats in .... and there will NOT be ANY future in Los Angeles, in California - they will both be BANKRUPT!!!
ctdfalconer
Hacking away at our schools is exactly the wrong thing to cut if we ever have to cut anything. We're not just cutting off our nose to spite our face, we're diminishing the future strength of the nation.
Veritas
hello - you could BALANCE the LAUSD Budget in 24 hrs. !
- all you have to do is to rip-out ONE page from the Gov. Walker How-To Book, how to run the State....
but does anyone have the "guts" - naaaah!
the Teachers Union Bosses have the politicos in their pockets, and the pupils (kids) get SCReWED!
Mukesh
Oh! What happened to the LAUSD Teachers Union ever present Mantra.. "Its for the chiiiillldren... "
Alex
The UTLA again
showed their dedication to the students by reducing by 5 days the time that
they actually teach, while keeping 4 “Pupil Free/Unassigned” days reserved for “professional development”. Since UTAL members already get the summer, 2
weeks for XMAS, 1 week for Easter, as well as all the other federal/state
holidays off; maybe they could consider getting their professional training on
their own time, like most professional do.
Mark in Irvine
The public employee unions win again. Wake me when there's real news.
This is the worst possible solution. Instead of making permanent changes to pay, benefits, or pensions, LAUSD has agreed to a one-year fix shortening the school year. When the money doesn't magically appear next year, they'll have to find a new fix.
christy
You realize that the teachers are taken a big pay cut, don't you? Furlough days are UNPAID days off. They still have to teach the same amount of material and increase the students' test scores in fewer days with less salary. You have a strange way of defining a "win".
Chris
"You realize that the teachers are taken a big pay cut, don't you?"
NOT the retired ones. That is the PROBLEM. They get COLAS while the kids and schools get nothing!
Mark in Irvine
They've agreed to take un-paid days off for one year. That's the deal. No permanent solutions, no "pay-cut."
christy
It's clear you don't know what an unpaid (furlough) day is. You don't get your salary that day. If I make $10 a day for 30 days and my employer says I will be working 20 days then I am making $20 that month not $30. There is NO reduction in what the teachers must teach and the expectations for meeting educational goals. Therefore, same work less pay. It's pretty simple.
CDCH
No.
You ever heard "time is money"
They are getting paid the same for the HOURS they work.
Please don't spin it. They can work another job with the furlough time off. Nobody is not stopping them from this.
It is sort of funny, if they wanted this time off teachers call this a sabbatical not a furlough.
christy
No! Again, teachers are asked to teach ALL of the material and attain the same educational goals with fewer days and less money. Did you not hear Pat's professional guest?? It is as if your boss cut your work week to three days but still expected you to get five days worth of work done!
Mark in Irvine
I get it. The fact that it's just for one year is my point. The teachers' union won.
There is no consequence to an LAUSD teacher if a child learns nothing in their classroom, so there's no contractual requirement to teach the same material in fewer days. Again, UTLA wins.
David- Long Beach
Or increasing revenue to schools combined with other measures to keep the school year at a good length so that Students don't fall behind anymore than they are.
Mark in Irvine
If we could just pay teachers more, then students wouldn't fall behind. Since LAUSD teachers pay $0 for healthcare benefits, we can't really increase that benefit. If we could just increase their pensions to 125% of their final salary while still allowing it to be spiked with vacation and sick days, then students wouldn't fall behind...
christy
I love people who think teaching is a "cush" job with summers off. With an advanced degree these teachers are making $80,000 - $90,000 a year. My brother with an advanced degree (not a teacher) makes $425,000. He doesn't get summers off but he gets vacation almost equivalent to an entire summer. Mark, why don't you try to teach a class of 35+ kids who are all at different learning levels, some with learning disablilities, some with social/behavioral prolems, some with no support group at all except for the school teacher/staff. I think you would be complaining that the union was only getting you $80,000 a year!
Mark in Irvine
I've never said the work was "cush." I do think the pay is decent for the hours and days required. I think the benefits are great. And I think the pension is phenomenal!
If you prorate that $80K over 12 months, rather than 9, the "real" pay is over $120K.
Again, when public employee unions stop attacking me each election cycle with demands for higher taxes in a high-tax state, I'll stop pointing out fax about unions.
Beth in West Hills
Mark-
As someone who hope to earn a pension, I also worry about the pension time bomb. Will the system be liquid when I retire? If the state was to move to different system, they would have to compensate employees considerably more upfront.
With regard to tiered pay it's tricky. Some populations are more challenging than others. Also a big factor schoolwide culture and programs. The instruction the students had the year before, the support of other classes and a well-run school library also make a huge difference. Arts programs can also teach higher-levl thinking and keep students engaged in school.
I also worry about all the focus on at risk students. My children are middle class but they still need arts programs, PE, a school library and a reasonable class size.
Testing should not be the sole measure of quality teaching. My children already spend too much time answering multiple choice questions in school and current CST tests do not measure writing or much higher level thinking. Also by high school, students have figured out the tests don't mean much to them. Further, many people who can contribute to students' success teach subjects that aren't on the CSTs--elective teachers, teacher librarians and more. Maybe schoolwide incentives for improvement and yes, easier ways to get rid of teachers who can't/won't do their jobs well. I wish the discuss could be less polarized between the state, district and the union. Good teachers don't mind accountability. It's just really hard trying to do it a fair and meaningful way.
Veritas
Don't worry about it - your pension system WILL NOT BE LIQUID ! ( California has over $500 BILLION unfunded pension liability .... http://articles.latimes.com/20... ).
PROBLEM: Instead of a government of the people, by the people and for the people,
we have become a government of its employees, by its employees and for
its employees.... NOT FUNNY, but reality!
EvelynU
I teach in a community college and participate in State Teacher's Retirement System, whether I want to or not, and it is *instead of* (not in addition to) Social Security. My retirement is dependent on how the state of California manages its pensions, because I cannot collect Social Security. To me, that is not phenomenal. It is scary.
Mark in Irvine
Beth,
I would support a plan of identifying quality current teachers and quality prospective teachers and paying them more than the current pay structure allows. It's the pension time-bombs that have me most concerned.
I would also like to experiment a bit more. e.g. If I were rich, I'd like to take the entire student body of a low-income LA-area elementary school and spend twice per pupil than what's currently being spent; and measure whatever difference that created.
My fear is, the difference would be negligible because I can't change the "challenging" family, friends, and culture into which they were born. I'm certain I could dramatically change the lives of maybe 10%. How much extra are we willing to pay for this result?
Beth in West Hills
I hear your frustration about pensions and accountability. As an educator and a parent, I share your frustrations about accountability (though I don't think an increased emphasis on test scores is the answer). With regard to compensation, first, most teachers don't make nearly $80K (LAUSD maxes out at about $73K) and even with that, we are having real trouble recruiting quality teachers. The combination of frustrating working conditions and pay below other jobs that require similar levels of education make the job less attractive. On top of that, California ranks 34th in per pupil revenue, according to the NEA. Students will not achieve, by any measure, if they do not have quality teachers. What would be your suggestion for recruiting and retaining quality teachers, given that you suggest that compensation is more than adequate?
ctdfalconer
Reducing pensions would reduce costs a bit, but wouldn't make as much difference in quality of teaching as eliminating tenure, making it easier to remove ineffective teachers.
christy
While we are talking about "real" pay the $80,000 a year is for teachers with masters. Not all, in fact not most, teachers have advanced degrees. Those teachers are making $40,000 - $60,000. I think teaching is incredibly valuable. An educated work force enriches all of our lives and that comes from a comitted public education. You say they work nine months a year but the teachers in my district come in over the summer to prep classrooms, they spend the summer working on lesson plans. Some teachers even take up summer part time jobs since the cost of living in California is so high. Again, if you think teaching is only working 3/4 of a day for nine months and reaping phenomenal benefits, I encourage you to try it out.
Mark in Irvine
ctdfalconer,
I'd support higher pay for teachers, in exchange for reasonable pensions.
ctdfalconer
Except that not all of the work of a teacher takes place during school hours. All teachers spend many hours outside of class grading and making lesson plans and other things.
Pay is not anywhere near high enough if you ask me. If we're serious about having top quality teachers and expecting top results, we need to pay them more, much more. We could probably negotiate away tenure if we make compensation good enough.
Mark in Irvine
"facts" not "fax"
David- Long Beach
Rather, if we could fund school systems enough that there are no furlough days, no overcrowded classes, and no need to go through this every year. While i support unions this situation is ridiculous and they need to give a bit more instead of costing us more. On the other hand funding in this state is crippled due to state and local politics as well as voter initiatives that cannot be rescinded which limit funding.
No comments:
Post a Comment